A New Rule

Written on May 31, 2009 by The Christian Heretic in bible, hell, inconsistency, literalism, salvation
A little over two years ago I issued my Everlasting Hell Challenge, which asked Protestant Christians who base their theology on the Bible alone to demonstrate convincingly that the traditionalist evangelical view on hell and damnation is a much clearer teaching in Scripture than the idea that hell is not a place of everlasting torment (the traditionalist evangelical view being the idea that salvation is by grace through faith alone, apart from works, and that those who don’t put their faith in Jesus for this salvation will suffer forever in hell). Not surprisingly, nobody has completed the challenge. The reason for this is really quite simple though: it just can’t be done.

Really, to come to the traditionalist ideas about salvation and hell requires some serious eisegesis. If you want to justify the idea that damnation is everlasting, you can’t continue to believe in salvation by grace through faith apart from works and claim to remain consistent, at least not from a biblical perspective, because the only passages that hint at the duration of this judgement being forever (depending on the translation you’re using as not all Bible translations do) also point to doing good works and mutilating your body as the means of avoiding this outcome.

In the end, there are only two reasons to believe in everlasting torment in hell for non-Christians. The first reason is because so many of the leaders of the Christian religion have taught it for so long and most people are too afraid or too lazy to question the teachings of these leaders and find it easier to just assume that these leaders know what they’re talking about. The second reason is because you simply want it to be true that some people will suffer forever with no chance to escape and are hoping that this is what God will do.

So, in the spirit of one of television’s great hosts, I am declaring a New Rule: If you want to continue teaching that non-Christians will suffer in hell for eternity you have to demonstrate your sincerity by cutting off a limb or plucking out an eye (see Mark 9:43-48). If you don’t take the Bible seriously enough to take the bodily mutilation part of the damnation passages literally then there’s no reason for the rest of us to take the consequences for not doing so literally. If that’s too much for you, then you at least have to stop teaching that avoiding hell is based on grace rather than good works and start feeding the hungry and giving drinks to the thirsty and inviting strangers into your home and giving clothes to those who need clothing and visiting those in prison (see Matthew 25:31-46). You can’t completely ignore the first half of the passages you’re basing your claims on and then expect us to take the rest your theology at all seriously.

7 Comments - Leave a comment!
  • Patrick
    There are more verses of scripture that have to be dismissed with traditionalists to not believe in UR than ones that point towards and endless torment in scripture...It is actually easy to see once the pre-supposed lenses of damnation are taken off.
    Some of my favorites...where all means ALL not some.
    Isaiah 57:16 52:10
    Colossians 1:20
    1 Tim 2:6
    1 Cor 15:22 15:28
    T Tim 4:10 my favorite one to hear hellers blunder upon.
  • Johnny Parker
    Petite-bunni's statement that "hell is where we all belong" - and hence its implication that that's where we're all going unless we explicitly acknowledge Christ as our saviour - is typical of the kind of wrongheaded thinking that perpetuates the scandalous myth of eternal torment. As George MacDonald has pointed out, it is an outrage against logic and justice that we humans should be condemned to hell (however you interpret that) merely for being what we are, ie human - as we were created by God.

    The Bible is quite explicit that we are all born with an inherent tendency to sin. How ridiculous, then, to believe the lie that we are condemned to eternal death purely because we do what comes entirely naturally to us. The wages of sin is death, but that is spiritual death - a state we're all in, and from which we can and will be rescued by Christ's atoning sacrifice on the cross. But none of us will ever be abandoned to everlasting physical death, annihilation or torment.

    I was brought up as an evangelical Christian, and always believed the Bible taught the doctrine of hell as everlasting punishment and separation from God. It doesn't, simple as that. Those who oppose Univeralism are, like the Pharisees, simply blinding themselves to the truth - often, and this is so very sad, because they feel that it's not right that they, being "Christians" who "deserve" the reward of Heaven (thanks to their own cleverness in choosing to believe), should have to end up sharing it with the unbelieving masses. In their theology, the rest of the world can go hang. Hmmm.

    Petite-bunni's statement that "to say that ALL will go to Heaven regardless of what they have done, all that they have said AGAINST Christ and Christians is only to belittle what Jesus did for us" betrays her complete misunderstanding of the gospel of grace. The whole point of the thing, the very crux of what Christianity ought to be about, is that God loves EVERBODY unconditionally - ie His redeeming love for us is in no way contingent on any response we may or may not make to it. Surely that's the underlying truth behind all those verses in the Bible that emphasise how we should love and forgive those who wrong us - just as God does.

    Of course, "bad" people will be healed of their badness - either in this life or the life to come, just as those of us who accept Christ in those lifetime have begun to be healed.

    And why are the anti UR brigade so hung up on the idea that salvation is salvation from death or hell. There's nothing in the Bible that truly supports that interpretation. Jesus came to save us from our sins.
  • Just wanted to share my experience and say thank you for this resource.

    You're most welcome Tom. Thanks for your comments.
  • Tom
    To the site publisher: this is a great site for Christian Universalism. I used to be heavily fundamentalistic and fire and brimstone. Then I started getting to know people who weren't Christians and I experienced something that others have experienced as well and that is that my caricatures of them were not accurate. By getting to know people for who they are, I discovered a mercy and compassion that I would not have had if I had simply retained associations with only Christian people. It's easy to condemn and yell about eternal judgment when you personally don't care about the people about whom you are speaking. Just wanted to share my experience and say thank you for this resource.

    To the other commentators: one thing I find in every single blog or comments section of news articles that I read is the back and forth bickering that goes on. I want, as an aspiring psychologist, to introduce you to the idea of belief perseverance. This is where a person, regardless of the evidence presented to him, will interpret what is being said in light of what he already believes. There was a study done where people received the results of research on the efficacy of capital punishment in deterring crime. One set of data supported it, the other did not. These two sets of data were both shown to people who were for the death penalty and those who were against it. The result showed that people who started with the belief that capital punishment deterred crime found the evidence in favor to be overwhelming while they harshly criticized the evidence against it. The same was true of those originally against it except the other way around. When the study was done again, this time with the strong urging to be unbiased and objective, the results were exactly the same. This study shows that once we've made up our minds about something, we're unlikely to change what we think. Even reading evidence against our position tends to reinforce our original belief. So how do we challenge ourselves to be more objective and fair? Simple: explain the opposite position. Try and imagine how the other side could be right and seek evidence to support it. This strategy tends to reduce our belief perseverance and make us realize that the other side has intelligent reasons for believing what they believe and are not just being deceived by their wicked, unbelieving heart. Besides, if that were true, how do we know that YOU are not the one deceived by YOUR own wicked heart? I think the question makes the point. We need to listen to other people, try to get an accurate understanding of what they believe (instead of the straw man arguments often proposed - especially on this particular debate of Universalism), and try to imagine how it could be that they might be right. For me, this has created humility and an appreciaton for diversity in the body of Christ and has helped me stop accusing other people of "seeing what they want to see" when in fact I may be the one who is doing it myself.

    Blessings,
    Tom
  • petite-bunni
    Michael:
    No. No one deserves to be in Heaven, and I would never wish anyone in Hell, although that's where we all belong. What I'm saying is we have choices as God's children to choose between the two. Jesus or no Jesus. The wide path or the narrow path. Otherwise, why have two? He's come so that we MIGHT be saved. There isn't a guarantee there, no matter how much we want to believe it is so.

    I've read a few articles of UR on this blogger's site, and they're enough for me. I'm sorry to say this, but it sounds just like the "Calvinist propaganda" that you try to fight against, the only difference is that you're on the whole other end of the spectrum.
  • Thank you Michael.

    petite-bunni, to repeat what I said to Ben, read the articles on the subject (the link is at the top right of every page on this site) to understand why we believe what we do.
  • petite-bunni
    Who's right? And who's wrong? As for me, I just need the Bible, and not just bits and pieces of it that support what I stand for but all of it. We can't accept one thing that the Bible has to say and then ignore the rest that we may not agree with. :-/

    And I agree with Ben, to say that ALL will go to Heaven regardless of what they have done, all that they have said AGAINST Christ and Christians is only to belittle what Jesus did for us. For me, it's hard to believe that someone who openly, consciously, willingly, and gladly denounces God and kills many who believe that Christ died for their sins, and DIED hating God and Christians would be able to find peace with those who were devout and actually found peace. Again, not only is it undermining what Christ did for us, but also undermining what other Christians had to go through for believing in Him.
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